Curse

UnChosen · May 15, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I seriously don't get why so many of the skills are nerfed for PvE...somehow a 15 sec recharge party heal and a smiting signet is overpowered there (and nearly every other nerf on that list). Am I missing something or is Anet somehow suggesting that SF and ROJ (as much as I love those skills) are less powerful than PwK and Cas Sig.

Hanging Man · May 15, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

haha @ aegis
thats one crazy adjustment

Woh was fine as it was but whatever
PnH knew it was gonna get something

I'd rather see a fix to spawning power or RoJ scatter

DreamWind · May 15, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.

Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.

For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. The weirdest thing is, almost nobody was complaining about Aegis until the recent metas. It really shows how a large chain of events changes how powerful skills are even if the skills themselves aren't changed.

Anet has to think in terms of big picture...not huge nerfs and buffs to certain skills given the current climate. Big picture balance is something Anet does not seem to have...which is sad given the amount of time it took to release this update. It is CLEAR to me that Anet has bigger priorities than game balance, regardless of the PR lingo they spin on us. They didn't even give us REASONS for the changes (yet).

Of course...this has been clear to me for some time now that they have other priorities...I just think this update should make it clear to the rest of you. We have reduced Anet's updates to being defined as only good "relative to their other bad updates" which is just pathetic in my eyes.

Rocky Raccoon · May 15, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.

Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.

For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. The weirdest thing is, almost nobody was complaining about Aegis until the recent metas. It really shows how a large chain of events changes how powerful skills are even if the skills themselves aren't changed.

Anet has to think in terms of big picture...not huge nerfs and buffs to certain skills given the current climate. Big picture balance is something Anet does not seem to have...which is sad given the amount of time it took to release this update. It is CLEAR to me that Anet has bigger priorities than game balance, regardless of the PR lingo they spin on us. They didn't even give us REASONS for the changes (yet).

Of course...this has been clear to me for some time now that they have other priorities...I just think this update should make it clear to the rest of you. We have reduced Anet's updates to being defined as only good "relative to their other bad updates" which is just pathetic in my eyes.

My opinion has always been to see what you have to use and then use it to the best of your abilities. Those whom can adjust will prosper, those who can't will QQ. Just my opinion. Also 3 Scorpian Bowls talikng, lol.

EDIT: I play games for fun, so ANET can do what ever they want with skills, I will still play as long as I consider it fun. That doesn't mean I might not take a break from time to time, but if I am having fun I will return.

-Makai- · May 15, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.

Well, my personal gameplay used to revolve around maining a Ritualist, but since nerfing them in PvE is SO important when SF, SY! and TNTF run rampant, I think trying that change to PwK is a bit of a stretch.

You guys may as well nerf splinter and a-rage and be done with it. It would save us Rits a lot of time wasted on actually trying something unique.

Yichi · May 16, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

On the contrary, this slightly buffed Paragons. ["It's just a flesh wound!"] now replaces PnH for condition removal.

No it doesn't.

Lishy · May 16, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

No it doesn't.

I would say it is.
Compare 2 second recharge to 12 seconds in recharge.

That said, PnH is by no means a bad skill. And it removes hexes too.
"it's just a flesh wound" is simply just more spammable and easier to use in order to remove conditions though.

Yichi · May 16, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

I would say it is.
Compare 2 second recharge to 12 seconds in recharge.

That said, PnH is by no means a bad skill. And it removes hexes too.
"it's just a flesh wound" is simply just more spammable and easier to use in order to remove conditions though.

except the fact that no one in pvp runs gons anymore... PnH is still the more viable alternative.

Lishy · May 16, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

except the fact that no one in pvp runs gons anymore... PnH is still the more viable alternative.

"it's just a flesh wound!" doesn't need investment in paragon attributes though

Yichi · May 16, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

"it's just a flesh wound!" doesn't need investment in paragon attributes though

requires a spec into Motivation line... now you are 4 speccing a monk to replace a skill that is still better? no thanks.

Gun Pierson · May 16, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.

Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.

For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months.

I have to agree with you. To be honest I always thought they were listening to the top pvp players or I always found that to be the most logical thing at least. So the group with whom Izzy talked to in the past are not the top pvp players?

As for PvE, indeed don't piss off people with little but annoying nerfs like castigation signet. Small buffs once in a while bring happy faces and I understand if they need to step in if some skill is way overpowered, even for the power creep.

Underused skills and elite skills can be reworked to bring some new life into that aspect of the game without worrying too much of having drastic consequences in pvp play. I thought they made a step in the right direction when Ray and other skills were reworked.

Anyway, another point I have to agree on is that they indeed have other priotities. Like I said before, it comes down to not having enough recources again. That's not Linsey's or the others' fault, but the higher ups and NCSoft.
It came that far that I question the business model. Even though Garriot is 'controversial', he might have been telling the truth there. GW2 will follow the same model as it seems from the little info we have. If that's the case there's a chance history will repeat itself. At least it's a good thing Aion is a succes in Korea. Less skills in gw2 is something I don't like, but I start to realise it may be the only way.

HawkofStorms · May 16, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Surely you cannot deny that this update has been badly received? There are people who like aspects of this update, but so many more that are amazed by it's lack of quality. Expectation was very high, delivery was very low.

The thing is.... A.net NEVER hyped this update. It was never supposed to be amazing, just an average skill update. Expectations were high only to certain people (those who care about high end PvP and read the boards, 90% of casual players don't care) and we made those expectations.

A.net NEVER promised this as some sort of massive gamechanging update. Its the community's fault for going "oh there was no skill update last month, which means this one will be uber." We are the ones who created the high expectations for this update. I don't see why we are entitled to chew out A.net for failing to met the hype we caused for no reason.

Lishy · May 16, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

requires a spec into Motivation line... now you are 4 speccing a monk to replace a skill that is still better? no thanks.

Sure, if you think it's necessary to have a 25% speed boost

Sifow Chan · May 16, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

requires a spec into Motivation line... now you are 4 speccing a monk to replace a skill that is still better? no thanks.

Lolz learn about the actual skill before you decide to argue thinking you know what you're talking about.

Plus it's good monks don't want to use it because it's the others professions faults that Paras are so low on the list. Don't need them causing more nerfs.

Gonzo_Neo · May 16, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.

Ok i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay.........................oh wait, im a Paragon, im a forgotten nightfall profession, with 0 actual builds used in pvp, and only efective 1 used in PVE.

No sorry, this update dont change NOTHING of my personal gameplay, i had hopes that ANet will rechange Motivation in PVE to make it useful, but no, like always the Paragon only have Imbagon to play in PVE and nothing in PVP. But you see, is fun use the same build again, again, and again to try that the people catch you in her group, while monks have ( roj, hb, prot, ua etc.. ) or necros ( discord, mm, ss, etc...),etc...

And of course, you are a paragon, you are the worst profession to farm, of course....

Ok, i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay -_-

But well, this can be worse, i could be a super nerf Ritualist :S

PD: I dont know the german community, but the spanish dont seem very happy too

glacialphoenix · May 16, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.

I'm not fussed about not getting buffs in PvE, and do remember that monsters use the PvE version of skills, too. You keep buffing skills in PvE, sooner or later someone will QQ over Monster X being too hard to kill.

@Anet: That being said - prior to the PvE/PvP split, I could understand that any changes that affected my PvE game were due to balancing for PvP reasons. You nerf Skill X for PvP reasons, that's part and parcel of the whole thing. Not anymore. If the PvE/PvP skill split was supposed to pacify people who don't like having their skills hit for reasons not pertaining to them - it's not working if you don't make use of it. Right now, if nobody can see why you nerfed Skill X in PvE as well, that just makes people more upset, especially considering this update was much anticipated courtesy of the delay. (We'll have to wait for the comments for that one, I guess, but 'til then...)

Sifow Chan · May 16, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo_Neo

But well, this can be worse, i could be a super nerf Ritualist :S

I think it's safe to say Paras and Rits are both equally nerfed to suckage. At least Rits can farm stuff :x

GourangaPizza · May 16, 2009, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Please do not feel obligated to nerf Shadow Form and Ray of Judgment because people on these boards don't like mere mortals being able to complete harder areas or farm effectively.

Please beat /Me Distortion with a bat and leave it for dead on the side of the road.

What? There is some serious issues going on when Ursan is nerfed whilst the more powerful SF remains intact.

Distortion is powerful but not overpowered. If it bothers you that much bring Magebane Shot or better still a mesmer.

Regulus X · May 16, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

What? There is some serious issues going on when Ursan is nerfed whilst the more powerful SF remains intact.

Distortion is powerful but not overpowered. If it bothers you that much bring Magebane Shot or better still a mesmer.

So, fight fire with fire? Or staple Magebane to Warriors, Rangers, Monks, Mesmers, etc..? Or roll an all-ranger team post-nerf with ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER NOW... to roll a 3-man E/Me & Mo/Any?

I don't know about ya'll, but with this kind of reasoning, we might as well bring back everything that once was overpowered and tell them to use moar block/hex-condition removal and less damage. Monks should FLOOD their bar with stances and hex-removal... Screw Healing! MOAR BLOCK/ANTI-HEX GOGOGO!

/endsarcasm

Wish Swiftdeath · May 16, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Distortion isn't the problem mindless blast is the problem.

The update overall wasn't THAT bad as some of you are making out, just needed more changes.